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> Issues > Repulse Rotor Magnet Diminution
ISSUE:
Repulse Rotor Magnet Diminution
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:46 AM
Subject: [PES_BMM] important correction: rectangular actuator magnet; repulse rotor, change
to attract
[...] Another very important piece of information that came up in our conversation this evening
regards the "repulse" rotor.
Doug has observed with various systems he has studied, that magnets tend to lose their power when
in "repulse" mode, but that "attract" mode has different properties, and do not
diminish the magnet.
He has seen with some systems, such as some HJ motor designs, that when the magnets are in
repulse mode the magnets diminish in strength until the motor no longer functions -- which gives
physicists a chuckling grin saying, "I told you so."
With this in mind, Doug recommends two possible variations from what he has done.
One is a single small "attract" rotor to one side of the large rotor, rather than two
small rotors with the large rotor in the middle.
He suggests that the reason Bowman had two rotors was so that the motor would turn one direction
when the actuator magnet is placed on one side (e.g. left side as shown in the drawings we have on
the site), and then turn the other direction when it is placed on the other side (I'm not clear as
to where that would be, but it would seem the opposite symmetrical location would be the right
place.)
However, as described in the timing directions, balance is achieved with just one small rotor
(without the actuator in place, the two rotors, one small and one large, spin freely as if no
magnets were present). That is the condition without the second rotor put in place.
Doug conjectures that the system would work with just one "attract" rotor and no
repulse rotor.
The second variation he suggests is that both small rotors be put in the "attract"
mode, and thus the diminishing of the magnets by being in repulse mode would not transpire as
predicted.
Doug predicts that the "repulse" mode of the one rotor could lead to the diminishing of
the strength of the magnets in the repulse rotor.
If it turns out that the motor does not work except when one rotor is in the repulse mode, then
we need to be prepared for the possibility that physicists will be giving us their "I told you
so" grin; as the magnets are serving merely as a form of battery, discharging the magnetic
charge in the course of providing rotation in the system.
If so, it is still an interesting study, but not the holy grail and not a free energy device --
not tapping into some yet unknown force.
If I recall our conversations correction that we've had at various times, Doug has been able to
get the rotor to spin in reverse direction by putting the actuator magnet above the repulse rotor,
rather than below it. The burning question now is whether the motor will spin with the actuator next
to the small rotor that is in attract mode; and if not, is there a diminution of magnet strength
when the small rotor is in repulse mode in this system.
We should not announce this system as a "free energy" device until we have tested the
motor over time.
One piece of information we will want to get from the magnet manufacturer the amount of energy
required to charge the magnets.
Sterling
Second Small Rotor Essential
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PES_BMM] N32
[...] The second rotor is absolutely essential. If you only consider the interaction between
the center disc and one of the rotors, you face a series of hills and valleys. Bottom line
is that the energy gained on "push-out" is precisely the same as the energy
needed for "pull-in", (when flywheel effect is ignored) That is what brings
most magnet motors to a dead end. The second rotor balances this out so that without
the actuator, the three rotors will essentially free spin. The actuator adds the
imbalance to cause rotation. I think the actuator can act upon either side
rotor.
Ken Hegemann
Lose of magnetic strength in repulsion mode
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: [PES_BMM] FAQ: Lose of magnetic strength in repulsion mode.
Taken from several sources on the web..
===========================
* This one is a response Tom got from a magnet maker.
Thank you for contacting AMT,
Neo N38 magnets will not loose magnetism when used in repulsion as long as they are not heated above
the specified max operating temp. for the specific grade.
Std N38 is 80deg C.
Regards
Warren Marshall
http://www.magnet.au.com
==========================
* Adverse Fields
External magnetic fields in repulsion modes will produce a demagnetizing effect on permanent
magnets. Rare Earth magnets with coercive forces exceeding 15 KOe are difficult to affect in this
manner. However, Alnico 5, with a coercive force of 640 Oe will encounter magnetic losses in the
presence of any magnetic repelling force, including similar magnets. Applications involving Ceramic
magnets with coercive forces of approximately 4KOe should be carefully evaluated in order to assess
the effect of external magnetic fields.
==============================
Adverse Fields
External magnetic fields in repulsion modes will produce a demagnetizing effect on permanent
magnets. Alnico with a coercive force of about 650 Oe will encounter magnetic losses in the presence
of any magnetic repelling force, including similar magnets.
Applications involving Ferrite magnets with a coercive force of about 4 kOe should be carefully
evaluated in order to assess the effect of external magnetic fields. Neodymiumium and Samarium
cobalt magnets with a coercive force exceeding 15 kOe are rearely affected by repelling forces.
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Page created by Sterling D.
Allan, Jan. 5, 2003
Last updated January 20, 2004
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