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Assembly Variations
Contents:
Performance RecommendationsShim Your Bearing for Smooth Turning
From: "iron1of1" <ronee@telus.net>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:32 PM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Re: Readily available
precision rotor bearing
A word of caution for those using a regular bearing: watch that the inner and outer parts of the bearing are not flush. If this is the case then the inner race will rub on the aluminum and cause friction. The rotor will not rotate. A small circle of material (a shim) under the outer race before you fasten it down will keep the inner race clear of the aluminum. Ron Secure the Shaft -- No Wobble
From: kenh2k@aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [PES_BMM] stability of shaft
This is precisely what I did yesterday. I put a second bearing 4 inches below the original bearing and the result is absolutely no wobble. Not running yet but I am confident.
Ken
Hegemann
Replying to:
From: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@greaterthings.com>
To: "PES Magnetic Motor (Bowman)
egroup" <pes_bmm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:22 AM
Subject: [PES_BMM] stability of shaft
I would think that by having a more sturdy back side to the shaft of the
rotor, that the problems of wobble would be eliminated. Plastic Screws to Secure and Adjust Magnets
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Motor/Generator construction
Hi Sterling, I think I will run with this motor
construction.
Get this: Instead of gluing the ring magnets to
the stator I am going to CLAMP each magnet individually. I will first drill a
small centerhole in the stator sheets where each magnet should be placed.
Next - using a pattern guide template I will insert the ring magnets into
the template holes. Then using a very small diameter nylon machine screw,
washer and wing nut I will clamp each ring magnet in place. The nylon
screw will have a large fender nylon washer on it that covers the ring
magnet hole. The screw/washer will be directed through the
center of the ring magnet hole and on the other side of the stator housing the
wing nut will be tightened to clamp everything in place. If the screw
shaft diameter is small enough inside the ring magnets hole we could shift any
one or all magnets sideways or up and down somewhat to get this motor to
operate.
Once we get the motor to operate we could
use a hypodermic syringe and inject superglue around the rim of each magnet
and on the inside for a permanent fix. Then we could remove the nylon screws,
washers and wing nuts.
On a different train of thought- I keep thinking
about the circular Mikel power donut, The mention of a secret Helix Rotary by
his relative and power generation from an almost similar device to this
motor/generator. Adding up all that in my mind I have come up with another
idea. Maybe once in a blue moon the motor/generator works with
a TRIANGULAR magnet configuration. I see many folks are having
trouble getting their unit to operate. We all know that some are working
however.
Say instead of using the triangular configuration
we used Mikells ROUND configuration with the same magnet pattern
presently used on the triangle model???
The magnet pattern ending/beginning would
have to match up perfectly to each other. All we would have to
do is find the correct outside diameter of plastic
cylinder or tube and drill small holes into it with this pattern in
place. Next we could use the magnet clamping routine described above with
great care as not to break each magnet on the rounded surface
circumference.
Everything described above will be quick and easy
without having to scrape any magnet off a glued surface. No mess or
waste.
We could experiment rather quickly in this
fashion. Triangular, Circular, or
whatever. Need all
input. You can post this message to the group if you
wish. Thanks, Tom Ferko
Nylon Rods for Micro Adjustment; Misc. Retro.
From: "retrorocket59" <brian@ziponline.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:27 PM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Re: Tom Ferko going to build
brought it up again. I have a laser cutter and once I prove the model works I am going to build a unit with slots for magnets so I can adjust several things, including the rotor. Also, using nylon rods for micro adjustments as well. Hopefully making it easier to refind a zero field location. But with one unit not correct and not working, I am strongly trying to build an exact duplicate first. I also contacted my plastic supplier earlier this week and got pricing on plastic screws[...]. They are reasonable in quantity. I also have previously asked my supplier about large diameter acrylic 'tube' to attempt the round modification. They only extrude up to 6", but 'Cast' tube gets larger. It is expensive. If it works, I have even considered using magnets on Both sides of the stator with frosted acrylic for friction to keep them in place better - no glue. This makes a doubly strong field, which may kill the effect?... However, the magnet 'pairs' will pull together. It remains to be seen if this would affect performance. I want to mention that if this device was invented in 1930, there were no Neo magnets. MXLO said ceramics would work but produced poorer results. ---RetroRocket59--- Screw Rods to Adjust X-Y Movement of Stator
From: "retrorocket59" <retrorocket59@yahoo.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Re: REPORT
short feet under the Stator assembly and raising the rotor height with it, so I can get under there and move the aluminum strip and try other metals, read the field directions, etc. I can also make slots on the base assembly so the stator can be moved and controlled in one direction 'guided', I would move the other direction by hand. Again, assuming I can get one working first, I thought it even better to to have plastic screw rods setup in the base which would allow you to precisely move in the X and Y directions with ease and control. You could then 'mark' the sweet spot for much faster tuning on repeated occasions. If this thing works, the frustration of doing it by hand is that you are randomly going back and forth and cannot easily eliminate a micro position you have already tried. --- RetroRocket59 Bore Indentation to Hold MagnetsSterling,
In putting the unit together last night, I found that it was quite difficult
to position the stator magnets in the proper location over the template.
That's because the new magnet wants to join the already positioned
magnets. So tonight I am making new stator holder plates and I will make
them on my milling machine for ultra high accuracy. I will bore a hole
in each magnet position (right on the money) and these holes is will
hold the magnets in the exact location while the glue is drying. The
holes will only about 1/32 inch deep. This will make the magnet
assembly process very easy, very fast, and the result will be precise location
of the magnets. Honestly, it was difficult to maintain plus of minus
1/16 inch accuracy the other way. This will put the magnets to within
1/1000 inch of the specified location. I am doing this because I want to
know if this concept works. If it does not work, I don't want to wonder
if it was because of poor magnet positioning.
Ken
Hegemann
Use ChemAlloy to Solder Bearing to Aluminum Striphttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/pes_mxlo/message/203 From: "Mark" <mwiseman1@cox.net> Ideas for Getting Unit to RunTry Pumping Action?
From: "TeroRanta" <tero.ranta@bigfoot.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:32 AM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Adjustment procedure
and other things
I was looking at some videos of the Minato wheel and how mr Minato gets his wheel to turn by pumping the "actuator" magnet. See here: http://www.fdp.nu/photobooks/album7/minato4.wmv I thought that perhaps the adjustment procedure ("you must gently glide the stator body to the left, right, forward, back") for the MXLO device means that you need to move the stator rhytmically, sort of making a small circle with the stator around the rotor so that the stator points all the time in the same direction. Perhaps the rotor would then catch rotation because of the pumping of the stator and hopefully then continue on its own. I have thought until now that the stator and rotor must be static and then the rotation should start on it's own or that the stator must be static and rotor starts to spin by giving it a push by finger, but perhaps this is not the case. Perhaps the whole idea is to start the rotation by moving the stator in a small circle. As for the zinc vs nickel coating debate, I don't think the coating matters anything. I would be more inclined to think that the difference is the magnets. We are all using different magnets than MXLO. The rotor magnetic field is so weak (due to the weakness of the ceramic magnets and large air gap between rotor and stator) that even a small difference in the rotor field would make a difference. You can easily see this by making a neo rotor, even though the rotor seems to spin better when spun by hand (because the sticky points are stronger and give a stronger push when helped by finger), I have started to think that we need a much more subtle interaction between the rotor and stator to make the motor spin. You can also experiment with turning the stator "inside out" in such a way that the magnets are on the inside of the stator but the magnet layout is same as original. Using rubber bands to tie the stator plates together only on the bottom side of the stator is a good idea here (now you can turn the stator inside out without having to cut the plastic wire ties). By doing this the stator and rotor have a stronger interaction as the air gap is smaller, but also the sticky points are stronger. I have also tried all sorts of different configurations as I mounted the stator magnets with plastic screws, for example moving the center line stator magnets closer to the rotor (long screws are handy here) or by changing the configuration of the stator magnets. This does not seem to be the answer at all, so I think that perhaps we are doing the starting procedure wrong? Perhaps "pumping" of the stator is the answer? Thanks, Tero * * * * * Pumping Action Did Not Work
From: "retrorocket59" <brian@ziponline.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:19 AM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Re: Adjustment procedure and
other things
On three of your points: I have additionally added the pumping action. I have spent many hours in each of these four methods, 1)up/down/in/out - 2)each point on the board 1/4" spirals winding down over the rotor, - 3)angle in and out and down. 4)flat on board moving to every position. As for your mentions of 'you don't think the coating matters: MXLO answered me yesterday: "You do not need to invest in Zinc, nor does anyone else. Your unit will work as is, if you have the patience to find the zero point. This is the same thing that is needed for any other magnetic motor. Even the ones that were built to half scale could work because the layout is correct to create the effect but the zero point must be found. Think of it as threading a needle from across a room, it is a difficult task but it can be done." I am using the magnets they have specified in size, and ceramic correctly sized buttons on the rotor. Still no effect. I would go back in postings and mention that their instructions say 3/4" x 1/8" neo's, but if you use a caliper on their photos, their hole in their ring magnet proportions out to 1/4". They seem to be flexible in their photo as well. AND they have indicated in, I think, a phone call to me that ceramics on the outside should work as a test but not as well. So to repeat what they have indicated above, it's just a magnetic motor and I assume what I have at this point should work. ---RetroRocket59---
Design Modification IdeasGround the Aluminum Strip
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: MXLO Innovations® Bound by NDA Terms
Hi Sterling, I read the whole page and came to a
very simple conclusion as to why most units constructed do not operate. I
believe the construction plans are good and if followed the motor will
operate. I have come to the conclusion they need the "kick"
furnished by an excellent ground on the aluminum strip as well
as centering the rotor in the stators "sweet spot". The
instructions tell us the aluminum strip is a ground but are we actually
grounding this strip properly??
Lets look further into why we are having problems:
Many have already constructed everything per the
plans but still no rotor movement. My idea is that the aluminum strip must be
bonded to the steel bearing with a CONDUCTIVE epoxy. Next and most
importantly I believe a grounding wire (NOT A HOT WIRE) should be connected to
the motor/generators aluminum strip. One could use any household
wall power receptical that has a plastic coverplate on it. They all do.
The screw that holds this coverplate on makes a perfect
ground. A copper strap over any house waterpipe also makes a
perfect ground. The strap then is soldered to a wire which in turn
connects to the motor aluminum strip.
Lets give that a try and see what happens.
Its very simple to do. You can post this idea to the
group. Tom Ferko
Scale up or down if magnets are larger or smaller
From: "retrorocket59" <retrorocket59@yahoo.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Yes, aluminum strip
is needed just to spin
Here are a few more things I remembered Thomas said: The aluminum seems to reflect the field and is necessary for the unit to spin. I think he was guessing about this, but I am not sure. But you do need it. On the stator plates, the center row in the center of the plate of magnets has those two missing magnets, those positions come closest to the rotor and are intentionally removed to keep the rotor from 'locking up' at those points during rotation. The magnets do not have to be exact, but if magnets are bigger or smaller than called for, then the plate sizes should be scaled up or down proportionately. The bearing does not have to be soldered down, the only concern on the bearing is that it does not move. Electrical connection has nothing to do with it. [...] --- RetroRocket59 --- Hard Drive = Precision Rotor Bearing; Shoe Goo
From: "andydidge" <Andydidge@aol.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:23 PM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Readily available precision rotor bearing
I am watching this develop with great excitement that this motor may actually work. (Fingers crossed). Some ideas: On the rotor shaft, I would like to suggest using a motor spindle out of a computer hard drive. It is the most precision and free-spinning bearing one can get...period. (accurate to .00001). You will likely need to remove the ring magnet from the hard drive motor to get rid of the drag produced by it. The discs (platters) themselves can be used for mounting magnets to for a rotor. The beauty of this is that they (the platters) are all the exact same size and interchangeable so you can experiment with different configurations on the same rotor spindle...and you wont find a more flat & balanced rotor anywhere. The hard drive spindle can easily be glued down (Shoe-Goo works excellent) to the main board. (may I suggest Shoe Goo (AKA: Sportsman's Goop), for all magnet gluing for that matter...they WONT pop off!) There are many precision parts readily available in computer hard drives for this kind of thing. I have built several magnet motor test beds using these readily-available parts. A hard drive is a virtual "magnet motor starter kit in a box" . Besides the perfect rotor spindle, there are many other components: springs, coils, and even some neo magnets inside. Check it out for yourself. I would suggest taking apart a few to get a good 'stockpile' of parts to work with. Computer recycling centers usually have hundreds of old drives to pick through...usually free or next to. -Andy * * * *
From: "iron1of1" <ronee@telus.net>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:32 PM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Re: Readily available
precision rotor bearing
That is a great idea. On the sample I have the axle has a threaded hole which would accept a screw from underneath the aluminum strip. With the magnet removed this leaves a 30 mm socket on top which would take a bushing for the axle to fit into. The whole thing is only 5/8" high and, except for the bearings, is made of aluminum. Ron What about raising each Stator Corner Slightly -- Vortex Effect
From: "VaporWings" <dsc@dcwi.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:50 AM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] quick Idea
are arranged which gave me an idea. Perhaps one of the builders can take one corner of each triangle side and lift it maybe 1/4" to 1/2" of an inch. I think this may add to the magnetic "vortex" if there really is one and it may help in getting the rotor to run. Later, Tom :) What about Circular Stators?
From: "magnetman12003" <magnetman12003@yahoo.com>
To: <pes_mxlo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:47 PM
Subject: [pes_mxlo] Idea for motor/generator
12003 See also
Index created by SDA
March 7, 2004 |
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