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Liquid Nitrogen Maintenance Will Gobble Power
From: ken
rauen
To: Sterling D. Allan
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: ... Telesis Site ...
Hi Sterling and Friends,
I examined the website material. The hardware that is ready for completion looks
nice, like the inventor knows what he is doing, but that is just an impression
and not necessarily the reality.
The description of the device, conceptually and mechanically, is sorely lacking
in substance. His numbers do not look good, even if the device works, which is
not even established firmly in concept. It is all too nebulous to me.
One inch-pound of work is 0.011 Joules. A 4x value per revolution is 0.044 J. At
1000 rpm, the maximum operation expected (and I agree), this is merely 0.73
Watts.
The superconducting shields (not fully explained) need to be immersed in liquid
nitrogen or surrounded with that cold of an environment. This size device inside
a dewar flask chilled with liquid nitrogen will consume at least 5 Watts of heat
to boil the LN2 to keep it refrigerated to that temperature; I speak from direct
experience dealing with LN2 and dewars at NERL. The power consumed to generate
the LN2 is even greater than that, so even if the device works (a can of worms
to prove, with the LN2 input), its output is less than what it takes to keep it
cold! I do not see a winner here.
Ken
[Science Advisor, PES]
* * * *
From: Sterling D. Allan
To: Telesis egroup
Cc: Ken Rauen
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 6:23 PM
Subject: Liquid Nitrogen Maintenance Will Gobble Power
Richard,
Don't be discouraged. I'm wondering if Mark Goldes' ultra conductors (room
temperature superconductors) might have an application here. Once we open
source, I can approach him.
Sterling
Richard's Reply
From: Richard
To: sterlingda@greaterthings.c*
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 8:54 PM
Subject: Liquid NItrogen power Gobble fix.
Sterling,
This guy name Ken has forgotten one thing.
Remember:
When the superconductor is placed in the fiber carbon cylinder, which will be
designed to work between 0 and 120 degrees Fahrenheit, the liquid nitrogen will
not boil just sitting in a room temperature building or room.
But when it starts spinning the shaking of the gates opening and closing will
generate heat but that is all of the heat it will generate,
and it will take a lot of rpm's to raise that carbon fiber cylinder temperature.
Ken's exact numbers on power output could be low, if this is producing a net
gain of 1 to 1.5 inch lbs. per revolution at 1000 rpm 's
it will produce between 16,000 and 24,000 inch ounces per minute.
SAY 24,000 divided by 16 and then divide it by 850 then you have approx.
Horsepower might be about 1.7647.
I am not sure but I think those are pretty close numbers. I may have to divide
these numbers per second to come up with a #
that is actual Horsepower.
Thanks, Richard
* * * *
From: ken
rauen
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [pes_...] Fw: Liquid NItrogen power Gobble fix.
Is that type of superconductor operating as a superconductor in the stated range
of 0 to 120 deg F? This is news to me.
The stated ballpark number of 5 watts of refrigeration with LN2 is for the whole
device, not just the tubes. How can you cool the tubes without cooling the whole
device?
The engineering units conversion is as follows:
(1 in #) = (1 in #)(m / 39.4 in)(N / 2.21 #) = 0.11 Nm = 0.011 Joules.
Multiplied by 4 pulses per revolution = 0.044 J. 1000 rpm = 167 revolutions per
second. (0.044 J)(167 rps) = 0.73 J/s = 0.73 watts.
Ken Rauen
Science Advisor
* * * *
From: Richard
To: sterlingda@greaterthings.c*
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 9:15 PM
Sterling,
[...na...] To cool this device because of LN2 problem the following are
alternatives:
1.Deep cool underground (man-made or cave)
2.High altitude aircraft
3.Arctic or Antarctic use
4.Use in space beyond Earth's atmosphere
5.Northern or Winter Climates
Thanks,
Richard Timko
See also
Page posted by SDA
June 24, 2004
Last updated June 26, 2004
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